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[laughter] how we had forewarning in libya. you know, i don't think in i of us would have needed fore washing to know that benghazi has been a hot bed of terrorist extremist not just islamic but real al-qaeda-affiliated groups. we also had a forewarning from egyptian intelligence what was happening in cairo. is this just a mistake? is that the simpest answer? governments make mistake. >> i don't know that the details. i saw the headlines. i don't know. there's an investigation i support your question and all, but to make our dip mate safe. going back to the point we need the heroes on the front line working there. mistakes were made as we saw the day the uprisings or this week the unrest started. "the new york times" they killed 3,000 people that were ignored that. it was a a bigger strategic wonder. i think there are certain things we need to learn. >> that strikes me all the same people who said that also said we shouldn't be arrested in the street. we should be pursuing a terrorist as criminals, i noted that the president fi
[laughter] how we had forewarning in libya. you know, i don't think in i of us would have needed fore washing to know that benghazi has been a hot bed of terrorist extremist not just islamic but real al-qaeda-affiliated groups. we also had a forewarning from egyptian intelligence what was happening in cairo. is this just a mistake? is that the simpest answer? governments make mistake. >> i don't know that the details. i saw the headlines. i don't know. there's an investigation i support...
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Sep 29, 2012
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the russian government and the chinese government, they didn't li what was done in libya where after the non-flight zone, this was used to enter and they were completely dismissed and just nowhere in the libyan picture because it's divided between the states, qatar, the united kingdom, and france. the starting point is really about politics and geostrategy. what happened afterwards is that all the reading of this political challenges where we were in sectarian mode by saying, and, you know, in my website and even when i wrote the book, i got so many criticisms insults coming from muslims saying in fact, you support the resistance because you are sunni and you like the qatari-saudi monarchy, and from the other side, the people from the shia tradition saying we support assad because he's a supporter of, you know, palestinians and at the same time the shia tradition, and it became something which is sectarian reading of the whole thing. i think it's very dangerous. i -- i allocated one section in the book about this divide between shia and sunni saying it's one of the great challenges o
the russian government and the chinese government, they didn't li what was done in libya where after the non-flight zone, this was used to enter and they were completely dismissed and just nowhere in the libyan picture because it's divided between the states, qatar, the united kingdom, and france. the starting point is really about politics and geostrategy. what happened afterwards is that all the reading of this political challenges where we were in sectarian mode by saying, and, you know, in...
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Sep 16, 2012
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in libya it was quite clear that this was a deal between the united states and france. and i think in syria we have to care about the people who are being killed and not only about the geostrategic interests which i think is the case today. >> i'm a journalist from egypt visiting d.c. and back again to cover the dilemma between the polarization between islamists and civil or secular powers. you said that islamists in egypt say that the -- [inaudible] was religious or islamic background, and this is not the case. do you think that -- [inaudible] into islam and what he wrote can be a solution to this which i think will not be solvent in the upcoming bills we will have still problems. thank you. >> okay. thank you for this question. first, what you are saying about the muslim brotherhood and what has been said in the '30s and '40s are right -- >> [inaudible] >> no, let me finish. he was talking about changing the individual and the family and the society and at the end to get an islamic state. and this was to liberate the country toward an islamic state. this is quite clea
in libya it was quite clear that this was a deal between the united states and france. and i think in syria we have to care about the people who are being killed and not only about the geostrategic interests which i think is the case today. >> i'm a journalist from egypt visiting d.c. and back again to cover the dilemma between the polarization between islamists and civil or secular powers. you said that islamists in egypt say that the -- [inaudible] was religious or islamic background,...
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Sep 19, 2012
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. -- what it saw as the imposition of democracy in libya. >> libya celebrating martyrs' day with guns. there are reminders everywhere of the sacrifices these people made to win their freedom. there are some here who refused to lay down their weapons. radical islamist groups say the fight for the villa is not over. they completely reject a western-style solution. >> we don't believe in the democratic system, even those countries pretend the are ruled by democracy, they know it is a mistake. we want to tell the whole world that the project of democracy is not for us and it does not suit islam. >> one group denies that they were responsible for the death of the american ambassador. they support the rights of muslims to protest against blasphemy. about 50 people were arrested in connection. it will not say who they are what the evidence is. a day confess that many of the perpetrators might have already left libya. for much of this is just for show and the new authorities have been criticized for failing to get on top of a worsening security situation. stand against these groups and we wil
. -- what it saw as the imposition of democracy in libya. >> libya celebrating martyrs' day with guns. there are reminders everywhere of the sacrifices these people made to win their freedom. there are some here who refused to lay down their weapons. radical islamist groups say the fight for the villa is not over. they completely reject a western-style solution. >> we don't believe in the democratic system, even those countries pretend the are ruled by democracy, they know it is a...
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Sep 14, 2012
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he arrived in libya on a cargo ship and how he believed in libya and its people and how they loved him back. they are and god save he laid down his life for his friends. libyan and american, for us all. today, chris is home. for americans, for petrie at, they loved this country and they chose to serve it and serve it well. they had a mission. they believe in that. they knew the danger and they accepted it. they didn't simply embrace the american ideal, they lived it. they embodied it. the courage, the hope and nasty idealism. that fundamental american belief that we can leave this world a little better than before. that's who they were and that's who we are. if we want to truly honor their memory, it is who we must always eat. i know that this awful loss, terrible images of recent days, pictures seen again today cause some to question this war. there is no doubt these are difficult days. as moments such as this, so much anger, violence, even the most hopeful among us must wonder. amid all the images of this week, i also think of the libyans who took to the streets with homemade signs e
he arrived in libya on a cargo ship and how he believed in libya and its people and how they loved him back. they are and god save he laid down his life for his friends. libyan and american, for us all. today, chris is home. for americans, for petrie at, they loved this country and they chose to serve it and serve it well. they had a mission. they believe in that. they knew the danger and they accepted it. they didn't simply embrace the american ideal, they lived it. they embodied it. the...
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Sep 20, 2012
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in libya that took the lives of ambassador stevenson three other americans in libya that took the lives of ambassador stevenson three other americans war are, colorado the lives of ambassador stevenson three other americans war, colorado and oak creek wisconsin's demonstrate we must remain vigilant and prepared and certainly, our thoughts are with those impacted by the senseless attacks. >> i have some questions about the implementation of this training change. various descriptions of it in response to the msn's of my fun -- [inaudible] [no audio] >> the will come to order. i apologize to running late, even though it doesn't appear as a lot is happening around here. i'm sorry for the competing process. i want to thank everyone for coming. i'm very, very pleased to welcome robert stephen beecroft, was a career foreign service officer nominated by president obama to be our ambassador to iraq. and i think all of us on the committee are pleased the president has nominated somebody of high caliber, great experience, who is our defense server vanessa the deputy chief of mission in baghdad for
in libya that took the lives of ambassador stevenson three other americans in libya that took the lives of ambassador stevenson three other americans war are, colorado the lives of ambassador stevenson three other americans war, colorado and oak creek wisconsin's demonstrate we must remain vigilant and prepared and certainly, our thoughts are with those impacted by the senseless attacks. >> i have some questions about the implementation of this training change. various descriptions of it...
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now what's the situation there in your opinion how does a country like libya want to rebuild itself one of the after months very few people talk about is that many of those who fought in libya now went to the area and are now fighting in mali for example were we have no sort of a civil war going on or some really extreme muslim took over the north a part of mali many of those fought before that and work with weapons everything would train. in libya so we see sort of the fallout of this war in the neighboring countries is there a chance that the type of situation we see right now in libya that could be repeated in syria as of today the situation for me in syria looks much worse than in libya because i mean the whole environment you know with the middle east conflict lebanon is one problem the other problem is that right now there seems to be so many other countries who have their own interests within syria supporting one side or the other turkey with a kurdish problem so they are supporting the movement just to prevent the kurds within syria to have their own you know autonomy then y
now what's the situation there in your opinion how does a country like libya want to rebuild itself one of the after months very few people talk about is that many of those who fought in libya now went to the area and are now fighting in mali for example were we have no sort of a civil war going on or some really extreme muslim took over the north a part of mali many of those fought before that and work with weapons everything would train. in libya so we see sort of the fallout of this war in...
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in libya so we see sort of the fallout of this war and libya in the neighboring countries is there a chance that the type of situation we see right now in libya it could be repeated in syria as of today the situation for me in syria looks much worse than in libya because i mean the whole environment you know with the middle east conflict. of unknown is one problem the other problem is that right now there seems to be so many other countries who have their own interests within syria supporting one side or the other turkey with a kurdish problem so they are supporting the movement just to prevent the kurds within syria to have their own you know autonomy then you have the gulf states supporting the rebels you have the cia on the ground you have german spy ships on the ground i mean this seems to be the whole world have their interest now with one group or the other syria and that looks to me like a recent piece for a long civil war within syria now we talk about contagion when we're talking about the eurozone crisis is the risk of a war contagion in the wider middle east area if the si
in libya so we see sort of the fallout of this war and libya in the neighboring countries is there a chance that the type of situation we see right now in libya it could be repeated in syria as of today the situation for me in syria looks much worse than in libya because i mean the whole environment you know with the middle east conflict. of unknown is one problem the other problem is that right now there seems to be so many other countries who have their own interests within syria supporting...
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Sep 14, 2012
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therefore, very dangerous to libya. and from everything we can tell, they either opportunistically seized on this or caused it to happen. it's quite different from cairo in the sense it's not even clear there was a spontaneous gathering of a crowd there at all. clearly, there was a decision at some point by ansar says is a rogue group. there was a decision to use the incident as a kind of cover to carry out what appears to have been a pre-existing plan to destroy the consulate. i doubt they knew the ambassador was there. >> eliot: because there were rocket-propelled grenades used which makes you think people don't show up in the street firing rocket-propelled grenades. >> anti-aircraft weapons as well. >> eliot: this was serious weaponry. >> yes. >> eliot: does this comfort with what you heard a domestic terrorist group as james points out, domestic, not international group which would be plotting elsewhere? >> i have spent a lot of time tracking the role that al-qaeda and the mag ran has been playing this region throug
therefore, very dangerous to libya. and from everything we can tell, they either opportunistically seized on this or caused it to happen. it's quite different from cairo in the sense it's not even clear there was a spontaneous gathering of a crowd there at all. clearly, there was a decision at some point by ansar says is a rogue group. there was a decision to use the incident as a kind of cover to carry out what appears to have been a pre-existing plan to destroy the consulate. i doubt they...
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Sep 16, 2012
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and the russian government and the chinese government department like what was done in libya. where after the nonfry zone it was used to enter completely dismissed and just nowhere in the libyan picture because it's divided between the states, can kandahar, the united nations, and france. and the starting point is about politics and go yo strategy. what happened afterwords is that all the readings of the political challengers where in sectarian mode. by saying and, you know, in my website and even when i wrote the book, i got so many criticism insults coming from muslims saying in fact you support the resistance because you sunni. and you like the saudi monarchies. and on the other side people from the shii had tradition saying we support bashar allah is sad because he's a supporters of the palestinian and the shii had tradition. became something which is a sectarian reading the of the whole thing. i think it's very dangerous. i allocated one section in the book about this between she had and sowne. it's one of the great challenging of our comings years. i don't see enough sch
and the russian government and the chinese government department like what was done in libya. where after the nonfry zone it was used to enter completely dismissed and just nowhere in the libyan picture because it's divided between the states, can kandahar, the united nations, and france. and the starting point is about politics and go yo strategy. what happened afterwords is that all the readings of the political challengers where in sectarian mode. by saying and, you know, in my website and...
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Sep 25, 2012
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because this comes after libya. libya, the action that the international community took is well documented. but remember that at that time the security council in the case of libya, it was almost there ideal security council. what do you want to have as a permanent security council, the 50 most at the time and was about everybody. india, turkey, brazil, mexico, every country that you name should have an opportunity. so it was a perfect moment. now, i think that last year china, india, others took a very intelligent position. we are not sure what you're going to do with military do great but we don't want to stop you from doing it. but we take note of how to do it. the operation was done. libya is now, believe it or not, and much more stable countries and others. election is going well. but the reaction of the government has been very solid and very rapid. it doesn't have all the infrastructure, never was states. both countries that let us do, there is response has been, well, you did too much. you over data, whether
because this comes after libya. libya, the action that the international community took is well documented. but remember that at that time the security council in the case of libya, it was almost there ideal security council. what do you want to have as a permanent security council, the 50 most at the time and was about everybody. india, turkey, brazil, mexico, every country that you name should have an opportunity. so it was a perfect moment. now, i think that last year china, india, others...
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them and chris stevens who actually advocated that the united states and nato arm the militants in libya eventually fell prey to the same militant groups on the ground so with the exception of that one unfortunate incident i think most of the demonstrations we're seeing right now are really spontaneous and the pain and the anger is really genuine. after a decade of intense focus on relationship building in the middle east much of washington's work is now in danger of being undone the pressure is now on america's diplomats to minimize the fallout and as marina point now reports they've got no one. anger is rising rage is spreading and american flags are burning throughout the arab world this isn't exactly the type of relationship washington envisioned after barack obama became president i've come here to cairo to seek a new beginning between the united states and muslims around the world the new u.s. leader promised to turn the page and mend relations tarnished by george w. bush's war on terror he even granted his first foreign television interview to al arabiya an arabic language channel
them and chris stevens who actually advocated that the united states and nato arm the militants in libya eventually fell prey to the same militant groups on the ground so with the exception of that one unfortunate incident i think most of the demonstrations we're seeing right now are really spontaneous and the pain and the anger is really genuine. after a decade of intense focus on relationship building in the middle east much of washington's work is now in danger of being undone the pressure...
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Sep 14, 2012
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>> don't have information that it was sent to the embassy in libya. it was sent to the embassy in cairo, which sort of acts leak, you know, one of these places in the region why wr they take the information and they send it out where they feel like it needs to go. we know that there was a warning that the movie was out there. they knew people had been watch it. there was a seven minute clip or so of the movie that aired on he jiptian tv over the weekend, which obviously highlighted the fact that egypt might be a place where more people knew about his existence, may prosecute e test, speculation there. there was no clear warning in that 48 hours before that there was any link to an imminent attack. planned attack. >> sure. it might be too early to know, too early to tell, but do we know what the intelligence community had y ink that it was going to spread through social media from being aired on egyptian television and then spread through social media to other countries so that other communities would actually see this clip? >> i think it's fair to say
>> don't have information that it was sent to the embassy in libya. it was sent to the embassy in cairo, which sort of acts leak, you know, one of these places in the region why wr they take the information and they send it out where they feel like it needs to go. we know that there was a warning that the movie was out there. they knew people had been watch it. there was a seven minute clip or so of the movie that aired on he jiptian tv over the weekend, which obviously highlighted the...
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and nasser in libya that was done. appeared to be the work of militant groups on the ground ironically i think most of the weapons that those militant groups used in the firefight that preceded the capture of the us ambassador and his murder i think most of those weaponry probably came from nato and the united states i mean that's the biggest irony that the and chris stevens who actually advocated that the united states and nato arm the militants in libya eventually fell prey to the same militant groups on the ground so with the exception of that one unfortunate incident i think most of the didn't stretch as we're seeing right now are really spontaneous and the scene and the anger is really genuine i'm not trying to just to fight i'm not trying to justify the violence that we're seeing occur for example we've seen incidents in in sudan in khartoum the capital of sudan where the embassies of germany and the and united kingdom were attacked do we have nothing to do with this movie before we came to speech against islam i
and nasser in libya that was done. appeared to be the work of militant groups on the ground ironically i think most of the weapons that those militant groups used in the firefight that preceded the capture of the us ambassador and his murder i think most of those weaponry probably came from nato and the united states i mean that's the biggest irony that the and chris stevens who actually advocated that the united states and nato arm the militants in libya eventually fell prey to the same...
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took nato in the attack on iraq is libya really debt getting destruction they've created this sort of violent situation so what of course we can get the terrible attacks on the u.s. consulate the murder of christine romans and of course the people responsible are those who carried out the killings we've got to put this in its wider context and this will not happen had native not intervened last year the government is losing its grip in libya in egypt now going across the region and the u.s. it is the car that's been stoking all this up the u.s. has been aggressively supporting. writings of course across the region for its own interests and now it's a kind of blowback time the u.s. is getting it back and you know i think not interference is the best way to go really what are they going to do reaching change again i mean we had this last year i mean exactly what was it take it was a stable country the u.s. and nato decided to i didn't mean anything if we look across the globe everywhere where nato has to be has been a disaster look at iraq one million people killed there you could be in
took nato in the attack on iraq is libya really debt getting destruction they've created this sort of violent situation so what of course we can get the terrible attacks on the u.s. consulate the murder of christine romans and of course the people responsible are those who carried out the killings we've got to put this in its wider context and this will not happen had native not intervened last year the government is losing its grip in libya in egypt now going across the region and the u.s. it...
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were bombing from the air you know they made a huge difference in avoiding an enormous bloodbath in libya and i saw the mirror i was kind of astonished any american reporter would have been astonished to see american flags flying in a place of honor in the main square is a little better i know it's just here for a second hand. if you don't mind me really i mean isn't this exactly what we did and sit in iraq didn't we say that didn't the neoconservatives went throughout american media fox news and elsewhere. arguing and propagating for the idea that americans are going to be perceived in iraq as liberators and what do we do and what are we discussing now we're discussing the numbers of that half a million die in iraq or is it a million and a half i mean we're discussing and debating the level of destruction that has been invited in iraq why is libya any different i mean now we are saying fifty thousand it's a lie did you see thousand missing it is more are wounded why is that any different just because we've found people who would use an american flag the same way that we found a few iraq
were bombing from the air you know they made a huge difference in avoiding an enormous bloodbath in libya and i saw the mirror i was kind of astonished any american reporter would have been astonished to see american flags flying in a place of honor in the main square is a little better i know it's just here for a second hand. if you don't mind me really i mean isn't this exactly what we did and sit in iraq didn't we say that didn't the neoconservatives went throughout american media fox news...
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the turkey and i'm out of the rest of the country but this is not libya and this is no iraq and libya we have libya it was nato who was bombing libya russia took a position against that in iraq it was the nato who went into iraq which is a different situation and the present moment the western powers of my being is that do not have the stamina the will of the eveleigh t. to actually openly interfere in syria in terms of the international scene and the united nations security council i think the position of russia china and the other countries who are supporting this position makes it difficult to get at is if you shouldn't interfere however they are but these countries that is france britain america actually acting totally outside the remit of international law acting outside the. machinery of the united nations because they have an objective of changing the regime regardless of the price that the syrians are going to pay what you talk about you talk about their objective of changing the raese right regime in syria why why would they want to do that what is that again for them well in
the turkey and i'm out of the rest of the country but this is not libya and this is no iraq and libya we have libya it was nato who was bombing libya russia took a position against that in iraq it was the nato who went into iraq which is a different situation and the present moment the western powers of my being is that do not have the stamina the will of the eveleigh t. to actually openly interfere in syria in terms of the international scene and the united nations security council i think the...
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and debating the level of destruction that has been invited in iraq why is libya any different i mean now we are saying fifty thousand it's a lot of the dead that you see thousands missing it is more are wounded why is that any different just because we've found people who would because an american flag the same way that we found a few iraq is raising an american flag is that enough to assure us that it's ok to do what we do and violate international law exactly the same way we did in iraq why is that i mean this isn't let me growing up. in kurdistan the american flag is also held very high but in the rest of iraq and i was a reporter based in or in baghdad last year in the rest of iraq know the american invasion is treated as something that's actually made things worse for most people although the liberty and the freedom that they have and the end of the dictatorship is something most people welcome look the fact is the arab world is in upheaval and there are aspects of it which are very dangerous but there are aspects of it which are very hopeful and when i said earlier that i seems
and debating the level of destruction that has been invited in iraq why is libya any different i mean now we are saying fifty thousand it's a lot of the dead that you see thousands missing it is more are wounded why is that any different just because we've found people who would because an american flag the same way that we found a few iraq is raising an american flag is that enough to assure us that it's ok to do what we do and violate international law exactly the same way we did in iraq why...
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is this is the reaction we're seeing now is part of that the drones are now being used now today in libya and yemen and in sudan and these drones policy people cannot go out on the mystery against the drones that are up in the sky so they would. they would take at. against the things that they're in front of them whether it's the the all shops all over there it's the us embassy it's this is the reaction of the people and this policy not only draws people don't forget alabama stan and fled iraq and palestine and all these. situations so these reactions are as i said it's part. of the foreign policy of the usa live from london somebody president of the arab lawyers association thank you. the georgian government is struggling to save face has public protests continue in reaction to the prison abuse scandal fury flared after a leaked video showed inmates being tortured and raped by guards at one of the country's jails the authorities have already arrested several suspects including the head of the facility georgia's interior minister and corrections minister have both stepped down over the sc
is this is the reaction we're seeing now is part of that the drones are now being used now today in libya and yemen and in sudan and these drones policy people cannot go out on the mystery against the drones that are up in the sky so they would. they would take at. against the things that they're in front of them whether it's the the all shops all over there it's the us embassy it's this is the reaction of the people and this policy not only draws people don't forget alabama stan and fled iraq...
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you are right, of course, that our ambassador in libya was an extraordinary man. i would say a very unusual one. that does not mitigate the need for leadership in washington. how do you see this? >> let me say one thing. this is a volatile issue. the first image of any leader when there are of laws broken and people are murdered is to focus on order and law and order. it is astounding to me. i agree with you about the statement. that is job number one. if you cannot perform that job, you're going to lack legitimacy. in the long run. the debate about religion and sensitivity and things like this, the extremists in the region have a symbiotic relationship with the radicals in our own country. that is what i consider it -- i spent most of my time reading about the diplomats and and the people who produced this film. they are not a representative of our society. to make sure that we do not keep our wits about us, that there is a strong desire for progress and change in the middle east. i've lived in many of these countries. there is a strong desire to continue to supp
you are right, of course, that our ambassador in libya was an extraordinary man. i would say a very unusual one. that does not mitigate the need for leadership in washington. how do you see this? >> let me say one thing. this is a volatile issue. the first image of any leader when there are of laws broken and people are murdered is to focus on order and law and order. it is astounding to me. i agree with you about the statement. that is job number one. if you cannot perform that job,...
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Sep 20, 2012
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today's hearing is our first since the attack in libya that claimed the lives of four americans, including ambassador chris stevens. the events in benghazi and ongoing threats to our embassies remind us that with dangers and difficulties of performing diplomatic missions, it is almost impossible to be an effective american diplomat without exposing oneself to risk . in some countries risks can be intense, yet exceptional americans like ambassador stevens continue to volunteer for these assignments. we are grateful that you continue to volunteer, sir. his life and work resonate especially with our committee, not merely because he was a talented diplomat, but because he was one of us. on many occasions during his time in 2006 and it as a seven he sat directly behind where i am sitting now. hearings on lebanon, iraq, and other millie's topics. exactly six years ago today he helped staffing hearing. after departing the kennedy he stayed in close touch with friends here, as he did at every stage in his career. we will miss our friend dearly. our thoughts gun to his family. although the debt tha
today's hearing is our first since the attack in libya that claimed the lives of four americans, including ambassador chris stevens. the events in benghazi and ongoing threats to our embassies remind us that with dangers and difficulties of performing diplomatic missions, it is almost impossible to be an effective american diplomat without exposing oneself to risk . in some countries risks can be intense, yet exceptional americans like ambassador stevens continue to volunteer for these...
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Sep 27, 2012
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last year, france played a key role rein libya. i am please to have laurent fabius back at this table. welcome back. >> it is the same table, although a different venue. looking at libya and looking at syria, when should united nations or member states intervene? >> well, these are different situations. in libya, i think we've been right in intervening because gaddafi was a dictator, and you remember that there was a sort of libyan spring, and nobody was possible because of gaddafi. therefore, a decision was taken to intervene. >> rose: is the principle you don't intervene no matter how atroacials the acts of the government in power, if in fact they have a member of the security council who opposes? or if in fact they have an army which will make it a very bloody affair. >> no. >> rose: are those the rules? >> no. the rule is because of veto if one or two people-- nations -- permanent security members-- we cannot contribute because our principle is to intervene only if we have a legal authorization. and up to now, three times, russ
last year, france played a key role rein libya. i am please to have laurent fabius back at this table. welcome back. >> it is the same table, although a different venue. looking at libya and looking at syria, when should united nations or member states intervene? >> well, these are different situations. in libya, i think we've been right in intervening because gaddafi was a dictator, and you remember that there was a sort of libyan spring, and nobody was possible because of gaddafi....
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Sep 26, 2012
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this comes after libya. remember that at that time, the security council was almost the ideal security council. if he were too dim what you want to have as a permanent security council, under the 50 members of that time -- it was everybody. every country name should have an opportunity. it was a perfect moment. we did not want to stop you from doing it. but we take notes of how you do it. the operation was done. libya is now a much more stable country than others. the reaction has been very solid. did not have the air for structure of a new government. -- they do not have the infrastructure of a new government. but in the minds of the country that let us do, the response of is it too much -- that created difficulties. the question of russia, china, which is less understandable. china has used a veto six ties. always with things believe in very close to the sovereignty of china. they do not have any relationship at all with syria, commercially or otherwise. so there were more following on the feet of russia.
this comes after libya. remember that at that time, the security council was almost the ideal security council. if he were too dim what you want to have as a permanent security council, under the 50 members of that time -- it was everybody. every country name should have an opportunity. it was a perfect moment. we did not want to stop you from doing it. but we take notes of how you do it. the operation was done. libya is now a much more stable country than others. the reaction has been very...